pay as you go basically in this capitalist economy. but it really -- i was hoping the president to drop the trillion dollar coin and give him some leverage, some power and kind of cool to see that happen. >> yes, and sounds very serious. >> sounds very serious and it's nice theatrics to it and disappointed once again paying politics with the economy and right refusing to work with him and party ahead of country. this is not way this is supposed to go down. >> i think to me when i was reading the so-called explosive politico article about this, it made very clear sense to me sort of immediately that this was part of a gop effort to talk not just to its base but to the left and say, if this is our leverage, shuting down the government and defaulting on the debt then we have to talk like it's actually possible. we can't threaten to do it and then say, but no one really wants to have that done so they have to say, well look at all of these members saying they're willing to go there. it's the only way they actually convince president obama